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crittergetter
crittergetter
The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:05 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 12 2011, 9:28 AM EST
EDIT 3  out of 11 found this valuable. Do you?    
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SGTGerman
SGTGerman
1. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:20 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:20 PM EST
I've gotten into trouble for asking people to back of newbs before. We were all "newbs" at one point, a fact regs'vets of this site seem to forget.

On the otherhand, as in all places of work and social etc, it is sometimes hillarious to hear someone's "mall ninja" style plan, especially when they express it in a way that it will work.

My stance is this. You explain to them why they are wrong. If they gob off or become hostile (like some most notable peeps) then "Weapons free".
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PaganArcher
PaganArcher
2. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:29 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:29 PM EST
My attitude is this: For those who live in the US, our school system teaches english K-12. There is no excuse for poor grammar in that aspect alone. For those outside the US, if english is not a first language, okay, but please preface your first post by stating that. And those who use the "texting format" I have no sympathy for. I use proper gramma even when I'm texting people.

As for why I've been known to harp on people for grammar, when all someone posts is "1gintwalofwrdsththaznomnsofbengread" (one giant wall of words that has no means of being read), it makes my head spin trying to decipher it. It's an internet forum, not WWII. No need for code and jumbled BS.
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SGTGerman
SGTGerman
3. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:39 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:39 PM EST
"My attitude is this: For those who live in the US, our school system teaches english K-12. There is no excuse for poor grammar in that aspect alone. For those outside the US, if english is not a first language, okay, but please preface your first post by stating that. And those who use the "texting format" I have no sympathy for. I use proper gramma even when I'm texting people.

As for why I've been known to harp on people for grammar, when all someone posts is "1gintwalofwrdsththaznomnsofbengread" (one giant wall of words that has no means of being read), it makes my head spin trying to decipher it. It's an internet forum, not WWII. No need for code and jumbled BS."
For young people, "text" speak is very common. There's no excuse for a polite "Can you please you full grammer. Thankyou." Or even a PM stating "Hey up mate, welcome to the site. Here's a few pointers..."

Treat others how you'd like them to treat you.
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Sharpie41
Sharpie41
4. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:43 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:43 PM EST
Same here pagan. Thats normally what happens sgt, but when they get all defensive about it and start saying they have something when what they say they have doesn't even affect the ability to spell thats when we start busting their balls 6  out of 7 found this valuable. Do you?    
LJ126
LJ126
5. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 2:51 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 2:56 PM EST
The minimum age to be a member of the ZSDW is 13 years of age, as children under this age cannot legally provide any information about themselves or their families due to a little piece of legislation called COPPA. Because we have a profile system, any child who joins the site and fills their profile out has essentially broken federal law. While we're not liable for that, we do feel that this site is intended *FOR ADULTS,* so we use the law as the minimum standard for our members to meet. Any member under the age of 13 is subject to immediate removal from our community.

Believe it or not, one of the biggest tip-offs that we have a minor on the site is their spelling, grammar, and punctuation, or lack thereof. Generally though, our ESL members do a very good job of expressing themselves clearly... sometimes better than native English speakers.

As far as people being rude to others because they are using written English poorly, I can't really say that I blame them. Our language is one of the most intricate, descriptive and beautiful in existence, and it deserves a little bit of respect. If I can't read my way through the title and first sentence or two of a post, I simply do not finish the post, I find something more mentally stimulating to read.

In short, if people expect to be treated like intellectual equals, they need to prove that they're deserving of that distinction. A little extra attention to details is really all it takes. If that's too much work for someone, I start to question how well thought-out their suggestions or ideas might be, given that they didn't take a few extra moments to express it clearly.

That being said, nobody here expects perfect grammar from everyone who joins, not even the staff. We do, however, expect people to be capable of constructing coherent sentences, and we also reserve the right to remove, delete, lock, or otherwise edit content that is not up-to-snuff.
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Carnack
Carnack
6. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 3:07 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 3:25 PM EST
Since I've been on the site I've gotten better at spotting the difference between regionally "lousy" spellers (those who spell words differently), honest mistakes (I still get Psycho wrong sometimes), and actual bad spelling (cuz it luks dum lik dis he he).

We don't expect you to have every comma and period perfect but you can learn basics from cracking open a book (or spell check) and it's so simple it really is hard to let it go.

But if you look like your learned spelling from the interwebz chatlines then yes odds are you will get some flack and why not? We want content that is understandable. Be understandable.

Let's look at your post Critter. I disagree with it mostly but you made it easy to read. I didn't need to wonder at what you meant because you used common word choices and even though you said things I disagreed with I took the time to read it.

But if you spelled so badly that I needed to spend several minutes deciphering what exactly you said on the first paragraph then I would not have read it all simply because I see no reason to care.
And I would see no reason to care about your post because (if it was spelled and punctuated poorly) YOU didn't care enough to make it readable.

I am constantly rewording my posts sometimes because I want myself to be understood so I try to make my post readable to aid that.

And finally with the plethora of spellcheck, and other resources available to help them learn to spell or to correct their spelling why should we teach them what school and the internet can? Is it our responsability to teach them basic spelling on this zombie survival site?
If they can get on this site they have access to a *lot* of programs to help them spellcheck. There are in short very very few excuses.

I want to read what you have to say. I don't want to have to decode it first.
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DEVILDOGMP
DEVILDOGMP
7. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 3:19 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 3:19 PM EST
"
I want to read what you have to say. I don't want to have to decode it first."
^THIS
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Carnack
Carnack
8. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 3:33 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 3:47 PM EST
"But hey you are the experts and spelling counts more than and idea or member"
This deserves special mention because of the issue at hand.

The worth of your ideas can only be pressed through adequate wording and spelling.
If you cannot articulamate and spellify what you are saying then those reading it will not understand or grasp it.
Good idea? Interesting concept? Hell if I know because I can't read his first sentence without my eyes melting!
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DEVILDOGMP
DEVILDOGMP
9. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:05 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:05 PM EST
"This deserves special mention because of the issue at hand.

The worth of your ideas can only be pressed through adequate wording and spelling.
If you cannot articulamate and spellify what you are saying then those reading it will not understand or grasp it.
Good idea? Interesting concept? Hell if I know because I can't read his first sentence without my eyes melting!"
Also, propper wording and spelling makes it easier for people from other nations who's second language is english, a lot easier to understand you.
The internet is often a place where words are cut down and the language is dumbed down, which sort of saddens me.
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Carnack
Carnack
10. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:16 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:16 PM EST
"Also, propper wording and spelling makes it easier for people from other nations who's second language is english, a lot easier to understand you.
The internet is often a place where words are cut down and the language is dumbed down, which sort of saddens me. "
Well I'll admit in chat my spelling degrades somewhat because the conversation doesn't hold up while you proofread everything.

So if you don't tap out "I'da killed him" in response to a cousin's prank fast enough it comes out as a response to someone's newborn son.
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Jahadaz
Jahadaz
11. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:20 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:21 PM EST
"I am constantly rewording my posts sometimes because I want myself to be understood so I try to make my post readable to aid that.
"
As do I. I then go back and reread after I've posted just to make sure. That's why you often see that my posts have been edited.

Carn, I don't agree with the majority of your arguments, but I can understand them. When I can understand a post I can then formulate my own opinion or response to the topic.

@OP - Why should I be expected to give a thought out response to a thread that looks like it was written while intoxicated? I'm not going to waste my time on that. In fact, I find it rather insulting that people expect me to.
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DEVILDOGMP
DEVILDOGMP
12. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:22 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:22 PM EST
"Well I'll admit in chat my spelling degrades somewhat because the conversation doesn't hold up while you proofread everything.

So if you don't tap out "I'da killed him" in response to a cousin's prank fast enough it comes out as a response to someone's newborn son."
Right, chatrooms are fine, when I text someone I cut down my linguistic skills because it saves space, but on forums I think spelling needs to be accurate because you're talking about serious subjects (most of the time) and you are trying to articulate a serious opinion. I don't take people seriously when they talk like: "so in da zombee apocalips I'm gunna get my fam out da house and get my ar 15 nd strt shoot the zombees in da head".
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LJ126
LJ126
13. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:33 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:36 PM EST
Side note: I accidentally hit the "Do you find this valuable?" thing on my own post, so it's actually only 2 people at this point, but that number might change again. I meant to hit DDMP's response with a yes, but I can't go back and correct it.

Again, nobody expects perfect English every time. Even those of us who are very good writers screw the literary pooch on occasion by being unclear, using the wrong words, or adding an improper comma here and there. I tend to overuse hyphens, and while I try to avoid it, I'm definitely guilty of it. I am usually very clear, if not a little verbose.

Some folks would be surprised how many times I will read and reread something I post. While writing, I will sit and think about what I'm writing to ensure clarity and cohesion, and believe it or not, I even occasionally use a thesaurus when there's a word on the tip of my tongue and I can't remember it. It's that *extra* little step that makes poor writing better, and good writing great.
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DEVILDOGMP
DEVILDOGMP
14. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:40 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 4:40 PM EST
"Side note: I accidentally hit the "Do you find this valuable?" thing on my own post, so it's actually only 2 people at this point, that number might change. I meant to hit DDMP's response with a yes, but I can't go back and correct it.

Again, nobody expects perfect English every time. Even those of us who are very good writers screw the literary pooch on occasion by being unclear, using the wrong words, or adding an improper comma here and there. I tend to overuse hyphens, and while I try to avoid it, I'm definitely guilty of it. I am usually very clear, if not a little verbose.

Some folks would be surprised how many times I will read and reread something I post. While writing, I will sit and think about what I'm writing to ensure clarity and cohesion, and believe it or not, I even occasionally use a thesaurus when there's a word on the tip of my tongue and I can't remember it. It's that *extra* little step that makes poor writing better, and good writing great."
I agree. I have been having trouble lately because I use my phone (my laptop was the unfortunate victim of a mortar attack on my last deployment; RIP Mac Book)
So my spelling may be messed up because of auto spell or my accidentaly typing a letter 3 times.

But I think that a good way to write an acceptable post is like what LJ said: sit back, think about it for a while. Also type it in word and use the spell check there then just copy and paste.
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SGTGerman
SGTGerman
15. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 4:53 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 5:32 PM EST
"Same here pagan. Thats normally what happens sgt, but when they get all defensive about it and start saying they have something when what they say they have doesn't even affect the ability to spell thats when we start busting their balls "
Having searched the site's simular to this one, I can conclude that there is none like it. Unlike youtube and far larger debate forums, this is a small, tight community.

I know you get newbs who are complete dick heads but we definitely need to do all we can not to boo them off simply because they appear to be at a young age, but to teach them "our ways"... if that makes sense. Remember, most newbs when they come on here can't see why their plan will fail. before this site, I like my mates were convinced "raiding MoD Stafford" was a good course of action, til I joined the site. Now my whole mind set has changed!

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DEVILDOGMP
DEVILDOGMP
16. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 5:18 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 5:18 PM EST
"Having searched the site's simular to this one, I can conclude that there is none like it. Unlike youtube and far larger debate forums, this is a small, tight community.

I know you get complete dick heads but we definitely need to do all we can not to boo them off but to change them. Remember, most newbs when they come on here can't see why their plan will fail. before this site, I like my mates were convinced "raiding MoD Stafford" was a good course of action, til I joined the site. Now my whole mind set has changed!

"
I'm a dick head, ill admit that (sometimes) but I wasn't booed off, because I used spelling and grammar. Lol
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timberrattler
timberrattler
17. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 6:14 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 6:14 PM EST
I don't use spellcheck and got Cs and Ds in English when I was in high school. I don't think anyone has made fun of my spelling or grammar lately but they did when I first joined. What'd I do about it? Improved my grammar and spelling.

This was a boon to my time spent here. I proof-read everything before I hit post and even edit when I catch something wrong. The fact that the members at the time gave me a hard time when I joined has improved my writting and in fact has given me a passion for writting.

This is a tight-knit crew I gotta say. There aren't many forums that I've visited in my time on the internet that compare to the unique dynamic that we have going on here.

I can't say that poor spelling and grammar are a sure sign of a fifth grader though. The facebook forum that I'm a member of for my high school class is full of poor spelling and grammar. I'd say there will be a long line in the parking lot at our next reunion of people looking to kick my ass. I go all "ZSDW" on 4.0 gpa classmates who write like 2nd graders. Hell lets face it, there I'm a total troll. LOL.
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John_234
John_234
18. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 7:21 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 7:21 PM EST
I don't really care about the nitty gritty so long as effort is put into it. If you have a computer, you have spellcheck. Now, I know not everyone has the best sense of spacing, but you should generally be able to tell if someone is putting out real content with effort from how it's written even if it is a little messy.

It's really just a courtesy thing in the end.
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oldannyboy37
oldannyboy37
19. RE: The treatment of newbies and bad spellers
Dec 5 2011, 8:05 PM EST | Post edited: Dec 5 2011, 8:05 PM EST
I'm generally pretty relaxed on it. I'd prefer people to use readable language though.

Generally my response also depends on their post. If they post something trying to lecture us all like, "Now listen here I know you all (Insert misconception here) but in reality (Post obnoxious reasoning here) and that's why you're all wrong.".
In those instances my response goes from, "Please use space and punctuation" to "English mother *****; do you speak it?".
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